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Who is the most powerful human?
Topic Started: Oct 10 2011, 10:02 PM (5,680 Views)
Mr. Blonde
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Cocoman
Oct 18 2011, 02:48 PM
By that time Trunks had told them about 17 and 18 so naturally he would want to most capable fighters with him if the ***** hit the pan.

Piccolo was suggested to have made massive gains in just 1 week at Kaio's and Tenshinhan, who was Piccolo's near equal in the Saiyan battle, spent 250-60 days at Kaio's. He could have easily surpassed Gohan's level of power in that time.

There was never the slightest implication that any of the Earthlings powered up in the 3 year timeskip but does that make it not true?
What does Tenshinhan do? Train. What does training do? Make you stronger.
What was Gohan doing? Studying. What does studying not do? Make you stronger.

Gohan got a surprise hit on 20 in the same way SSjin Trunks got a surprise hit on Majin Buu. Gohan was nothing special.

]I guess you missed out the fact that Gohan had not trained for 2 years after Namek while Tenshinhan and presumably Krillin were training. Krillin and Tenshinhan could have surpassed Gohan easily.
Vegeta and Trunks were there, so Piccolo already had the most capable fighters with him. Yamcha went down with no resistance against #20, and he can't have been too far behind Tenshinhan.

Piccolo was suggested to have made massive gains in just 1 week at King Kai's but it's never suggested how big these increases were. If he'd gotten stronger than a relaxed Nappa who was impressed by Gohan's Masenko, he theoretially wouldn't have even doubled his power. He had no idea how strong Freeza was and Nail knew he didn't stand a chance against Freeza if they didn't merge.

There was never the slightest implication that any of the Earthlings powered up in the 3 year timeskip... so their increases probably weren't anything to write home about. How can you say Gohan was nothing special when Goku knew he'd be a valuable sparring partner the second he hit Super Saiyan?

I didn't miss out the fact that Gohan had not trained for 2 years after Namek while Tenshinhan and presumably Krillin were training. I also didn't miss the part where after Gohan's last Zenkai Vegeta was overjoyed at the spike in power he'd had (implying that they weren't too far apart), and the part where Freeza was wary enough of Gohan that he transformed into his final form right after their little skirmish. I don't think Tenshinhan could have gotten 200-1000x stronger between landing on King Kai's and Goku returning to Earth, since he had nothing to train for and the plot didn't call for it.

Gohan had an absurd headstart on Tenshinhan by the end of the Freeza arc. During the 3-year timeskip, he was training with Piccolo and SSj Goku (two fighters who were much stronger than he was) while Tenshinhan was training with Chaozu (one fighter who was much weaker than he was). Yes, Tenshinhan trains, but so does Gohan when he has a reason to. The kid multiplied his power well over a thousand times in the space of one year. The increase Tenshinhan got in that year was 7-fold.
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Cocoman
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Vegeta and Trunks were there, so Piccolo already had the most capable fighters with him. Yamcha went down with no resistance against #20, and he can't have been too far behind Tenshinhan.


Yamcha should have been a country mile behind Tenshinhan and Krillin.
Yamcha was far behind Krillin the Saibamen fight and waaaaaaaaaaay behind Tenshinhan in the Saibamen fight.
Then on Kaio's, Yamcha was wished back after 150~ days while Tenshinhan was wished back after 250~ days.
Tenshinhan>Krillin>>Yamcha.

vs the Androids Piccolo would naturally want the strongest fighters with him no matter what and that's the bottom line really. Piccolo flat out said that they were going to confront the Androids and that included 17 and 18 who they were expecting to be at least strong enough to rival/stronger than SSjin Vegeta etc.
Tenshinhan & Krillin>Gohan.

Quote:
 
Piccolo was suggested to have made massive gains in just 1 week at King Kai's but it's never suggested how big these increases were. If he'd gotten stronger than a relaxed Nappa who was impressed by Gohan's Masenko, he theoretially wouldn't have even doubled his power. He had no idea how strong Freeza was and Nail knew he didn't stand a chance against Freeza if they didn't merge.


Nail was astonished at Piccolo's power even though he was at 42,000 himself.
It is likely that Piccolo was stronger than Freeza was vs Nail since he was acting as if he hadn't sensed a Ki as strong as him. That means that Piccolo post 1 week at King Kai's may be above 100,000 considering Freeza's feats vs Nail when he was holding back implies a 2x gap.

Freeza (1st restriction, true power)>>>Piccolo (post 1 week at Kaio's>=Freeza (1st restriction, holding back vs Nail)>>Nail.

Quote:
 
There was never the slightest implication that any of the Earthlings powered up in the 3 year timeskip... so their increases probably weren't anything to write home about. How can you say Gohan was nothing special when Goku knew he'd be a valuable sparring partner the second he hit Super Saiyan?


Nothing suggested Gohan powered up in the slightest (but presumably he did as well as the others) while on the other hand at least there is a statement by Krillin describing Yamcha's and Tenshinhan's Ki as 'huge' and coming from the guy who had sensed 50% Freeza and SSjin Goku's and SSjin Trunks' resting Kis, I doubt they were still in the lower millions at that point.

Also interestingly enough Tenshinhan implies that himself and a suppressed Piccolo were in the same league and logically that has to be >> Piccolo (Trunks arc)

Quote:
 
I didn't miss out the fact that Gohan had not trained for 2 years after Namek while Tenshinhan and presumably Krillin were training. I also didn't miss the part where after Gohan's last Zenkai Vegeta was overjoyed at the spike in power he'd had (implying that they weren't too far apart), and the part where Freeza was wary enough of Gohan that he transformed into his final form right after their little skirmish. I don't think Tenshinhan could have gotten 200-1000x stronger between landing on King Kai's and Goku returning to Earth, since he had nothing to train for and the plot didn't call for it.


Gohan's power was all due to his massive rage boost. Without that, he wasn't all that great.

Actually the plot calls for all characters to get dramatically stronger through training. The only character not included in this was Chaozu as he was basically excluded from the plot.

Quote:
 
Gohan had an absurd headstart on Tenshinhan by the end of the Freeza arc. During the 3-year timeskip, he was training with Piccolo and SSj Goku (two fighters who were much stronger than he was) while Tenshinhan was training with Chaozu (one fighter who was much weaker than he was). Yes, Tenshinhan trains, but so does Gohan when he has a reason to. The kid multiplied his power well over a thousand times in the space of one year. The increase Tenshinhan got in that year was 7-fold.


Who's to say he did have a massive lead?
According to quite 'good' filler Tenshinhan had already reached ~100,000 post just 1 week at Kaio's. I doubt Gohan was much more than 600,000 post his zenkai and Krillin must have been 200,000-300,000 before he died. In fact Tenshinhan and Krillin could make fairly minimal gains through relaxed training and still surpass Gohan in those 2~ years.

Also the 1st time a character receives that kind of training, they always seem to get massive boosts. Take Goku and Krillin at Roshi's for example. They went from fighters who were ants compared to the likes of Giran etc to fighters capable of putting up a fight against/rivalling thee Roshi.
Also Yamcha, after training with Roshi, went from being an ant compared to Krillin to being near equal to Krillin.
It's only natural that after training with Crane hermit, Tao Pai Pai, and then Korin (not to mention ALL the training in between) that he would get lower gains from God's training than what Gohan got from Piccolo's (extremely harsh) training.
Edited by Cocoman, Oct 19 2011, 09:53 PM.
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Didn't Piccolo plan on killing the androids in their pods by beating Gero to his lab?

Vegeta didn't, but I'm sure Piccolo did and Trunks was just into waiting for Goku
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I'm not sure about your Nail theory. Piccolo gave birth to a chocolate soldier when he felt Freeza's power, before Freeza even powered up.

Chapter: 294 (DBZ 100), P2.2
Piccolo: “I feel an outrageously large ki far away…! Is th-this the monster called Freeza…!? There’s three huge ki close by…! That must be Gohan and the others…!”

By the way he speaks, it seems one could also make a case for him being below Vegeta (obviously), and even Gohan and Krillin.

Still, Nail even says Piccolo can't win alone, and I doubt he was thinking Freeza could transform or suppress his power. Freeza took him out in basically two nonchalant hits, after all.

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Piccolo: “Are you saying that if I merged with God once again, my power would even surpass Freeza!?”
Nail: “Th-that’s right…I was overwhelmingly defeated by Freeza, but I should have a good comprehension of his abilities…[ ] So merge with me…! I’m also the only fighting-type Namekian on this planet…[ ] That’s right…Your power will become many times greater…”
Piccolo: “…You’re not lying, are you?”
Nail: “If you think so, you can just go get killed by Freeza…”
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Cocoman
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Kamikaze Pyro
Oct 20 2011, 12:11 AM
I'm not sure about your Nail theory. Piccolo gave birth to a chocolate soldier when he felt Freeza's power, before Freeza even powered up.

Chapter: 294 (DBZ 100), P2.2
Piccolo: “I feel an outrageously large ki far away…! Is th-this the monster called Freeza…!? There’s three huge ki close by…! That must be Gohan and the others…!”

By the way he speaks, it seems one could also make a case for him being below Vegeta (obviously), and even Gohan and Krillin.

Still, Nail even says Piccolo can't win alone, and I doubt he was thinking Freeza could transform or suppress his power. Freeza took him out in basically two nonchalant hits, after all.

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Piccolo: “Are you saying that if I merged with God once again, my power would even surpass Freeza!?”
Nail: “Th-that’s right…I was overwhelmingly defeated by Freeza, but I should have a good comprehension of his abilities…[ ] So merge with me…! I’m also the only fighting-type Namekian on this planet…[ ] That’s right…Your power will become many times greater…”
Piccolo: “…You’re not lying, are you?”
Nail: “If you think so, you can just go get killed by Freeza…”
By that time Freeza had went full power i'm pretty sure.

And yes I have Krillin and Gohan>Piccolo post 1 week at Kaio's.

And Freeza had told Nail that he wasn't going to use all his power against him;

"My battle power is 530,000. But of course, I don't intend to fight you at full power, so you can relax..."

Son, I am disappoint ;)

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Cocoman
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Kblo247
Oct 20 2011, 12:08 AM
Didn't Piccolo plan on killing the androids in their pods by beating Gero to his lab?

Vegeta didn't, but I'm sure Piccolo did and Trunks was just into waiting for Goku
He intended to but of course he knew that there was the possibility of a fight with them.
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Cocoman
Oct 20 2011, 12:17 AM
Kamikaze Pyro
Oct 20 2011, 12:11 AM
I'm not sure about your Nail theory. Piccolo gave birth to a chocolate soldier when he felt Freeza's power, before Freeza even powered up.

Chapter: 294 (DBZ 100), P2.2
Piccolo: “I feel an outrageously large ki far away…! Is th-this the monster called Freeza…!? There’s three huge ki close by…! That must be Gohan and the others…!”

By the way he speaks, it seems one could also make a case for him being below Vegeta (obviously), and even Gohan and Krillin.

Still, Nail even says Piccolo can't win alone, and I doubt he was thinking Freeza could transform or suppress his power. Freeza took him out in basically two nonchalant hits, after all.

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Piccolo: “Are you saying that if I merged with God once again, my power would even surpass Freeza!?”
Nail: “Th-that’s right…I was overwhelmingly defeated by Freeza, but I should have a good comprehension of his abilities…[ ] So merge with me…! I’m also the only fighting-type Namekian on this planet…[ ] That’s right…Your power will become many times greater…”
Piccolo: “…You’re not lying, are you?”
Nail: “If you think so, you can just go get killed by Freeza…”
By that time Freeza had went full power i'm pretty sure.

And yes I have Krillin and Gohan>Piccolo post 1 week at Kaio's.

And Freeza had told Nail that he wasn't going to use all his power against him;

"My battle power is 530,000. But of course, I don't intend to fight you at full power, so you can relax..."

Son, I am disappoint ;)

Ah, okay, I missed that line then. Still, Freeza hadn't gone to full power yet. Piccolo and Nail's conversation happens before Freeza and Vegeta tango, where Freeza powers up to full. I actually see Freeza powering up twice in his first form: once on top of that rock in front of the others, and then when he and Vegeta wrestle around.
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Cocoman
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Freeza's Ki actually appears to be quite misleading. Vegeta was crapping himself at Freeza's 'apparently' suppressed power;

Chapter: 293 (DBZ 99), P6.5
Vegeta: “Som-something’s coming closer! A stupendous battle power…! It’s Freeza!”

Nail was the only one to fight him up until this point and I think he was the only one who was able to judge his pl properly when he was still suppressed.
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Cocoman
Oct 20 2011, 12:33 AM
Freeza's Ki actually appears to be quite misleading. Vegeta was crapping himself at Freeza's 'apparently' suppressed power;

Chapter: 293 (DBZ 99), P6.5
Vegeta: “Som-something’s coming closer! A stupendous battle power…! It’s Freeza!”

Nail was the only one to fight him up until this point and I think he was the only one who was able to judge his pl properly when he was still suppressed.
Perhaps even at that point Vegeta didn't realize how much power he had inside him?
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Cocoman
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Well Vegeta still started talking about how they could beat Freeza even after he had powered up further.

If you ask me Freeza already powered up slightly in order to get to Vegeta and co faster.

Freeza (1st restriction true power)>=Freeza (flying to Vegeta and co)~Vegeta>Gohan>=Krillin>Piccolo>Freeza(vs Nail)>>Nail.
Edited by Cocoman, Oct 20 2011, 04:09 PM.
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Tien of course...
"There are three things I refuse to tolerate. Cowardice, bad haircuts, and military insurrection. And it is unfortunate that our friend Vegeta possesses all three of these."
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